Which Digital SLR to buy

[Andy]

Now I'm enjoying taking still pictures with my camcorder, I thought it's about time I bought a camera.

I called into a local shop and these models caught my eye at around £300 equivalent price:

Panasonic DMC-FZ30 Review
FujiFilm FinePix s9000 Review spec

I think I like the Fuji best just because of the nice feel of the lens ring. However the review link I posted has some very mixed opinions. I have owned a Fuji digital camera before (0.8mega pixel) and liked the easy usage and software. Plus my DV Camcorder is and TV/Video was Panasonic which delivered very good results but the Panasonic VCR Remote stopped working and the TV power supply chip blew up after 2 years.

I want to get a camera that produces very high quality photos with a good zoom lens to grab all the field of view from a scene in a room to something of interest in the air. Plus quick power up, ability to cope with wide-ranging lighting conditions and easy use. I will use my images for display on a widescreen laptop, TV, web and to show clients pictures of food in their restaurants.

Does anyone have any advice to offer on choosing?

[SensoVision]

Andy, both cameras not actually SLR, but SLR like and still doesn't give quality of SLR cameras from what I can say(base my opinion on photos from gallery on dcresource.com ).
If you didn't invest in large memory cards of certain type you can probably go with any camera as both seems to provide decent quality at least comparing to Dimage Z3 which I have now
BTW in the time I was choosing it I also consider Panasonic FZ series as it has much better quality of shots but was too slow, now from what I can see situation is improved.

So if I would choose from these two cameras I would consider if you need Anti-Shake feature from Panasonic(it helps me a lot since raising ISO is very bad idea with Z3 and my hands aren't very prone from shaking ) or lower noise in high ISO images as in case of Fuji.
Currently I wouldn't choose any of them as they doesn't give me what I'm looking for But if I should make a choise I would go with Fuji, it's famous for making sensors with low noise and good color range and seems that this time isn't exclusion. I think that I would use Anti-shake but sine I don't take a lot of shots at the telephoto where image stabilization is most effective I think that could live without it. BTW Both cameras seems to have nice lens IMHO at least I didn't find big issues which would make me worry. You've mentioned that planning to shoot indoors, and I've got feeling that Fuji performs better under artificial light.

BTW since you asked what SLR to choose, what about investing into real SLR? I would suggest my dream camera (probably in time when I get enough money to buy SLR there would be much better cameras with better features but right now if I would choose dSLR I would go with it) Nikon D50? It's provide very nice shot quality, lowest noise levels from all cameras I've examined.

I also recommend to check these reviews as they seems to be objective and give essential information about cameras, on the bottom of each review you can find link to photo gallery where you would be able to view full sized photos and compare them to each other:
Fuji FinePix s9000
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ30
Nikon D50.

Hope it helps, maybe Menard would spot this thread and could give you some advices and his opinion as well he seems to had way much more experience than me in photography, and from my own experience I know that he could point out important things I didn't mention myself

[Dr_Demento]

I think the next camera I get, I'll get from a camera store instead of off the net. I want to see if they will let me try a couple different cameras out for an hour or two. Stick the pics on a cd for me so I can see what I like.

Yeah, I know, I dreaming 

[Andy]

Thanks for the great advice :-)

The website you mentioned is very useful. Seems like I should look at the Cannon EOS-20D too  But, I guess I would have to pay twice as much for it which is alot of money considering my basic requirements. But I would like to avoid changing the camera for say 10 years. Along the way I might regret not going for a better model from the start.

I don't understand why the true dSLR has much better picture quality than the fixed lens camera, I would have thought it would be the other way around since an interchangeable lens must have less tolerance fitting than a factory assembled part 

The Nikon D50 seems like a good buy i.e. not too financially painfull yet probably plenty good enough for me. I'm going to meet up with a Friend of the family soon who is an experienced amateur photographer, so I can get some help from him too. I think he is a cannon fan.

Another problem may be that I end up wanting to photograph everything and have too many photos to deal with 

Yeah, I know, I dreaming

If you go into a shop with the plan to buy something, I don't see why they wouldn't let you try them out in the shop. I guess they would have to know you well to let you take cameras away for trial though.

[Menard]

Thanks for the great advice :-)

The website you mentioned is very useful. Seems like I should look at the Cannon EOS-20D too  But, I guess I would have to pay twice as much for it which is alot of money considering my basic requirements. But I would like to avoid changing the camera for say 10 years. Along the way I might regret not going for a better model from the start.

I don't understand why the true dSLR has much better picture quality than the fixed lens camera, I would have thought it would be the other way around since an interchangeable lens must have less tolerance fitting than a factory assembled part 

The Nikon D50 seems like a good buy i.e. not too financially painfull yet probably plenty good enough for me. I'm going to meet up with a Friend of the family soon who is an experienced amateur photographer, so I can get some help from him too. I think he is a cannon fan.

Another problem may be that I end up wanting to photograph everything and have too many photos to deal with 
 If you go into a shop with the plan to buy something, I don't see why they wouldn't let you try them out in the shop. I guess they would have to know you well to let you take cameras away for trial though.

With regard to having a camera which you will be able to have around for 10 years, get a film camera.

I only recently, over the past year, have purchased any digital model cameras. My most recent one was a Samsung 7.2 megapixel model zoom P/S which I found at Christmas time at an incredible deal of (US) $172. As I am primarily a film photographer, that more than works for me. My primary interest in digital, which is probably similar to yours, is to have a capable camera but not invest a fortune in it, as my interest in digital is to have an alternative for those times I do not want to invest in film for casual/fun shots. Turning around and buying the latest, greatest model every 6-12 months seems contrary to the idea that a digital camera is a low maintenance animal as digital photographers claim. Since I am not presently interested in the use of a digital camera professionally, I have been more than satisfied with getting a killer deal on one around Christmas.

Digital cameras have, and will continue to fall in price as even more are getting into digital photography. I have a friend who seems to like to suggest buying the latest, greatest model of DSLR, then trading it in on the next latest greatest model. In order for that to possibly be economical for someone, they must either have deep pockets (which he does not) or use the camera on a daily basis (which he does).

As different, and improved models of digital cameras are always just down the road a bit, or so it seems, we will continue to see the price of digital cameras drop per megapixel. The rate at which we are seeing improvements in the number of megapixels available in particular models is slowing, which is a good sign. This does not mean that they are near the end of the road by any means, just that digital cameras are coming into their own and have reached a level of technology where they can be more consistent, though with room still left for improvement; much like the computer has been. Like the computer, which was quite an expensive item in the not too distant past, but has become quite a bargain, we will see the same thing happen with digital cameras.

Unlike computers, however, we are not seeing manufacturers coming out with upgradeable digital cameras, nor offering upgrade programs. When a digital camera becomes obsolete, well, it is just an old camera that does not do as well as it used to do. Until DSLRs drop below (US) $500 dollars, which is not far off, I have no interest in one.

I, frankly, recommend that if someone is more interested in having a digital camera for casual shooting than for everyday shooting, that rather than looking for the latest and greatest model, that they look for the best priced model they can find which has features they would want and has good feedback, as they will be replacing it before long; unless, of course, money is not an object.


Fixed lenses on cameras have advantages and disadvantages.

It is true that a fixed lens has a fixed nodal point, which an iterchangeable lens lacks (generally), but this is a moot point as lens design has improved considerably. A fixed lens camera has the main disadvantage that it is as good as it is ever going to get. In order to make a lens compact, lightwieght, etc., compromises have to be made. This does not by any means mean that the built-in zoom lens is a poor lens as they have some excellent lenses in compact packages these days, but, like an aerial, a compacted model is just not going to give the same performance as the full size model.

The advantage with interchangeable lenses is that the manufacturer can put what they want to into the lens. They can make it compact, single focal length if they like (rarely seen outside of medium and large format anymore), telephoto zoom, etc. There is not a satisfactory way to make a lens everything in one without compromises in the design, however.

Even with the advantages of an interchangeable lens camera system, I still like having the capability of an all-in-one camera just for the convenience, as I don't want to carry a full-fledged camera outfit with me everywhere I go. I end up using the point and shoot cameras more often, anymore, than I do my SLR, just for the convenience of the situation.


Oh, well. I have rambled and not actually contributed anything to you inquiry. I will, however, publish my article on camera lenses on this board, should it interest you to investigate it further.

[SensoVision]

Thanks for the great advice :-)

hope it was, but don't take my words for granted, try to use camera yourself if shop permits you and examine what pictures you like most, as you choosing the camera and you have to use it in future, I just told which one is my favourite.
BTW if it don't have slot for compact flash it wouldn't gain so much attention in my eyes as xD cards are expensive and hard to get here... SD and CF much easier to get.

The website you mentioned is very useful. Seems like I should look at the Cannon EOS-20D too 

Canon cameras seems to offer good quality as well but I avoid them because of bad experience of my friends with their printers, higher than usual price for cameras and lenses and because of their marketing politic and ambitions(Year ago or so I've read press release where official from Canon was pretty arrogant and basically told that they are the only real camera maker these days)

But, I guess I would have to pay twice as much for it which is alot of money considering my basic requirements. But I would like to avoid changing the camera for say 10 years. Along the way I might regret not going for a better model from the start.

good thing at buying dSLR is that you can upgrade body later but still use lenses you've invested in before, that's why is so important to choose right brand which is making good lenses at affordable price.

I don't understand why the true dSLR has much better picture quality than the fixed lens camera, I would have thought it would be the other way around since an interchangeable lens must have less tolerance fitting than a factory assembled part 

Seems like Menard have already answered this question, but in terms of noise I think that dSLR use better CCD sensors and another important factor is that sensor is used solely for taking shot and not used while you compose an image(as with P&S cameras), in dSLR you're able to compose picture looking through viewfinder which form image either through pentaprism or pentamirror just like in film SLRs. So shortly talking sensor isn't powered all the time so it's not heated as much as in P&S and probably charge doesn't merge from one sensor cell to another which also result into electronic noise. This system also let you save on power so you're able to make much more shots with single battery(with D50 around 1000 or so if I'm not wrong).

The Nikon D50 seems like a good buy i.e. not too financially painfull yet probably plenty good enough for me. I'm going to meet up with a Friend of the family soon who is an experienced amateur photographer, so I can get some help from him too. I think he is a cannon fan.

Don't give up on Nikon, ask you friend about this model as well. The reason I'm insisting is because I've buy Nikon CoolPix 5600 as a birthday present to my girl, and I should admit that this purely P&S camera had much better color reproduction and sharpness than my Konica-Minolta Dimage Z3 which cost 2.5 times more So now I'm Nikon fan

If you go into a shop with the plan to buy something, I don't see why they wouldn't let you try them out in the shop. I guess they would have to know you well to let you take cameras away for trial though.

not sure like in other places but here I had not very nice experience in one shop where I've asked if I can go to street with salesman and do a photo with a camera I was interested in... They told me that I can go to street with salesman for 3 dollars, and they would gladly burn photos to my CD for 1 USD In my opinion it's not very good marketing step considering that camera which I was going to buy cost 600 USD... wired isn't it?

With regard to having a camera which you will be able to have around for 10 years, get a film camera.
[/qoute]
yeah, film photography live for many generation and guess that it never disappear completely at least not during my lifetime.

Digital cameras have, and will continue to fall in price as even more are getting into digital photography. I have a friend who seems to like to suggest buying the latest, greatest model of DSLR, then trading it in on the next latest greatest model. In order for that to possibly be economical for someone, they must either have deep pockets (which he does not) or use the camera on a daily basis (which he does).

hope that manufacturers think alike I keep on waiting for dSLR to fall below $500 as well, so I can invest in one myself.

As different, and improved models of digital cameras are always just down the road a bit, or so it seems, we will continue to see the price of digital cameras drop per megapixel. The rate at which we are seeing improvements in the number of megapixels available in particular models is slowing, which is a good sign. This does not mean that they are near the end of the road by any means, just that digital cameras are coming into their own and have reached a level of technology where they can be more consistent, though with room still left for improvement; much like the computer has been. Like the computer, which was quite an expensive item in the not too distant past, but has become quite a bargain, we will see the same thing happen with digital cameras.

there are signs that megapixel race is slowing down, and I hope it would happen soon and makers would look in the side of improving picture quality and camera features.

[Andy]

Thanks guys for more good info.

After more consideration and reading reviews I think I am going to go for a good point and shoot after all. They seem to have all I need, small enough to take everywhere I go and good performance.

The model that seems best for me so far is the Cannon PowerShot A620.