I'm having a hard time learning CSS

[Kamikid]

I've followed tons of tutorials but none of them have given me concrete examples used in real world applications. I can learn about class styles and id attributes till I'm blue in the face. But, until I follow a tutorial that actaully builds a webpage using those examples I cant learn a thing. Sad

I know what a property is, I know what a selector is, I know what a value is. Great! but its no use to me until I actually learn to do something useful to do with them. Rolling Eyes

So does anyone have any tips they used to learn CSS. Or better yet tutorials that actually build full fledged complex websites using CSS. Thats what I'm really after. Wink

[susieq]

Hello Kamikid,
My suggestion is, that maybe if you can get in touch with Islanding who is Weblamp Keys' Moderator, for, see here:   http://forum.weblamp.net/index.php?board=5.0
You maybe will be able to receive some assistance to your particular enquiry.   Hope this helps, if not, do, please get back to us....

[islanding]

Hay,
   Do you mean something like this?
http://forum.weblamp.net/index.php?topic=3373.0

[Andy]

Hi Kamikid,

unfortunately, building complex websites using css is a waste of time thanks to lack of support by browsers. Like me today! I spent hours doing an apparently simple task of making a box with rounded corners and a dropped shadow effect. Using CSS I quickly found some tutorials on how to do it in CSS3 in 2 lines of code, but since CSS3 is still in draft and even when we are virtually in year 2005 we still only can code rectangles.  So I coded it in CSS2 with segments of graphics stretched out to fill parts of tables and then found my favorite browser "Firefox" doesn't render it correctly. So I then went back in time to the 90's and and made a .gif graffic for a background image of what I wanted to make using css code. It worked great in my html editor. I uploaded it and it looked completely different under firefox. Some adjustment of the graphic width got it looking ok to me under IE6.

This is a really sad situation. For us small time webmasters, we have to code at a low-level with html/php/css to get indexed by search engines and get traffic. We don't want to be using Flash and high-power multimedia plug-ins. But we are stuck with ancient methods of graphical representation of our websites.

This is my site optimized (sadly) for IE6: http://www.creditcardsearch.org.uk

 

[KarlFreeman]

what is so bad about using high powered multimedia plugins and flash?

karl

[Andy]

Good question:

what is so bad about using high powered multimedia plugins and flash?

I am assuming they don't work with all the web browsers and give the same appearance.

Also, I believe that they are not indexed by search engines so will not show up as well in search results.

[johnhask]

Instead of trying a pure css site or design why don't you start with something slightly more basic. To accommodate all browsers, use 2 versions of style sheets and some light tables. Place any flash using JavaScripting to keep the page clean to validate. Ya I know its not a pure css, but it still presents well to the SE’s and to old and new browsers. 

[Hope]

what is so bad about using high powered multimedia plugins and flash?

They are slow to load. Remember most of the world is NOT on broadband.
They are not search engine friendly.
if user doesn't have plug in it can lock up a browser or cause the person to not see the site at all.

[Matt999]

I will have to agree with Mr. johnhask.
Pretty much have to go with the program until such time as more support is available.

Kinda a sign of the times...

[Andy]

Yeah, but it's about time this sort of matter was ironed out. Maybe, the next version of the web will be the time that compatibility is enforced?

[Hope]

Why does compatibilty need to be enforced? Each borwser offers different features. That would be like saying every website should be the same. If one browser choses to not support the current technology, then they get left behind. Or if that browser is all the rage because of other reasons, then we as webmasters need to accept that.  As technology has changed, so have we. If the technology doesn't change, then we either change it ourselves, or slow down until it catches up.

One of the reasons I like Netscape is it is more secure. If in the act  making it "compatible", it actaully makes it less secure, then I want nothing to do with it. Yes, I realize we are only talking CSS and that isn't a security issue, but where do we stop in the "forced compatiblity?"

I am a uniqu individual. I am not one that conforms well and I dont' think we should make these manufacturers conform to M$ standards. Lets face it, that is what we are talking about. Since IE can do it, then we push the scripting to the limits. Well I am sorry, but has anyone ever looked at the SH*T that M$ puts out? Why do we have to keep forcing every other manufacturer to compete with the bugs and instability of M$ products?

[Andy]

I didn't word my post very well.

What I would like to see is a standard way to format the appearance of webpages that is followed by all the web browsers.  So when you make a web page, you don't have to tweak it for all the available web browsers (Internet Explorer, Netscape, Mozilla, Firefox, Opera etc.).

And have a mechanism to seperate content from formatting to assist search engines and the visually impaired surfers.

This is what the CSS standards try to give us but the various browsers seem to implement CSS differently and are sluggish to adopt new versions.

[Hope]

Andy, I am sorry for my reply. I was building a new computer yesterday and went on an "I hate M$" rant. I need to behave. I don't want the M$ gods to ruin the computers here.

[Andy]

Hope: I forgive you. I understand the frustration of building a new computer.  My current machine is the first one I bought off the shelf and it is a very nice experience to switch it on and everything just works!

p.s. my son just upgraded his operating system and can't connect to the network/internet so I have some stress coming my way.

[SensoVision]

just spot this thread and decide to post URL for anyone interested in good CSS tutorial which gives some basics in understanding what is it and how to use it, hope it helps: http://www.htmldog.com/guides/cssbeginner/

p.s. my son just upgraded his operating system and can't connect to the network/internet so I have some stress coming my way.

Andy, what's wrong with the network, I seems to deal frequently with them form now, my PC actually act as a gateway right now as I had my home network(built on bluetooth), ethernet connection with local network and small network with 3 friends from the univertisty, maybe if you describe your problem I'll be able to assist you. feel free to open new thread in Computers board or ask here if you decide to do so.