How to improve Google PageRank?

[whiteRabbit]

The more time I spend, the more I realize that I know so little.  Anyway..., here's my new question.

Slowly, my site is getting some traffic; it's listed in a couple of search engines and directories, but ... Google PageRank for (I'm pretty sure) all of pages in my site are 0.  I was just checking sites that my site links, and I say that, from what I see, my site design is not terribly bad; better than many sites, but their PageRank are so much higher than my site.  Is it simply because they've been around longer and/or have many inbound links?  Is there any way to improve my PageRank just by tweaking and optimizing my pages?  Any help would be appreciated.

[CoastPC]

This  page, taken from Google themselves, will help to explain pagerank  Once you understand Pagerank and how it is calculated, you will understand the importance of good quality, related, backlinks  Together with a key-word rich 'page title', good meta description, great content on your page(s)
good quality links to other websites, your well on your way to a good pagerank and ranking

http://www.google.com/technology/index.html
hope this helps
Chris

[greg]

inbound links are what calculate page rank.....other things help your search engine placement, but inbound links is what effects your page rank.

Also, note that google has not assigned page rank to new websites that came in after the june dance. Like my site for instance is still PR0, when the more accurate ranking should be around PR5 or so.

[whiteRabbit]

Like my site for instance is still PR0, when the more accurate ranking should be around PR5 or so.

How do you guess that, guess that your site has PR5 or so?  Do you count the number of inbound links?  Do you add up PR of inbound links, something like that?

[greg]

i've just been around it long enough where i can look at what sites are linking to me and have a fairly good guess of where i should be. I easily compare my site with others that i have as well. The PR5 site that i already have does not have near the quality of links that i have currently. It might take another dance for the PR to level out to it's true quality, but it will be around PR5 at least, hopefully more.

[Hope]

Why do you care what PR you have? Honestly? I have seen sites with a PR of 0 rank fairly well. i have seen sites with a PR of 7 down on page 6 of the serps.

Your PR means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of search engines. Google doesn't really care what your PR is. Google  cares how many sites of quality have linked to you. Google cares what keywords are in the body of your site. Google cares that you follow the rules and don't cloak or spamdex.

PR is a general gage to go off of. It does not really effect your rankings. I have seen my PR go from a 3 to a 0 to a 7 to a 5 and my rankings on google have not moved.

Worry about who is linking to you and how they are doing it.

[whiteRabbit]

> Worry about who is linking to you and how they are doing it.

Well, I suppose that PR isn't really the major issue, but there was this site owner/webmaster who emailed me back and said that he/she could not exchange links with us because our site has a low PR.  After that, I was wondering if some owners/webmasters decide to not link back to us because our site does not have good PR (yet).  

It actually does not make much difference to us because I can't really change the PR even if we had a ton of money.  But I just wanted to get a better idea of what is going on out there.

[SensoVision]

yeah you're right WR, it's obviously that many folks go weird on PR and take it as a main factor when considering linking to particular website... actually I've done this almost same way when just starting my site and doesn't know much about how all of this work, but later when I understand that if I really wish to keep people I should care of what info I present to them...(outgoing links as well), now I need just find time to remake my site in accordance with knowledge I possess now. And yes as folks said here better just look to site quality... PR isn't thing why you shouldn't link to site...

[Creditwrench]

Anyone who claims that page rank is pretty irrelevant is absolutely correct as are those who tell you that what counts is in and outbound links and page content.

Those are what are important these days. Meta Tags, although necessary, are rapidly losing value as ranking tools too, and most especially the description tag which does need to be correctly done but still won't make much differench for the simple reason that the spiders are now using page content and making up their own descriptions based on the search terms the surfer inputs to them.

As a result of the newer search engine algorithms, it don't even make any sense to submit to them at all. It is almost a waste of time. You will do a whole lot better if you just let them find you.

Let me prove my point outrageous as it may seem.

I have about 1800 or so websites and webpages. I started out with one page back in April 2001 and I was submitting to the SEs 24- X 365 times 12 computers using different submitting programs. Even extended power failures for up to a week at a time didn't stop my submissions because I have a Diesel generator and a heavy duty UPS system with 180 big gel cells for back up power. Those gel cells are so potent that I use one of them in each of my cars instead of a normal car battery.

Gel cells are much more powerful than a regular car battery so that if your alternator goes out that gel cell will pribably get you home where a regular car battery will fail you in a heartbeat.

But I digress.

During the last two years, my website has received just over 14,000 hits.

Then I put up a blog on the 3rd of May this year (2003) and have never submitted it to any search engine. I have received just over 16, 900 hits as of this afternoon and still have 9 hours left in the day by the end of which tiime I will probably have passed the 17,000 mark.

On top of that, I am qute often #1 on top in almost any search term I want to target and a lot of them I don't target. Just happens. I often have as high as 3 to 6 or more listings on the first page of those listings. And I get there in 18 to 24 hours most of the time with at least one listing. Some take a week or two and some take more. Just depends on what the key word or keyword phrase is that the srufer is looking for and I get the same results on almost every search engine out there.

Six months ago you could not even find my name in a search engine anywhere properly conneccted to any of my websites. I simply didn't exist as far as the search engines were concerned. Today I am #1 on top and have several listings on the first page of listings.

If you want to learn how to get that kind of results I will gladly teach you how to do it for free. All you have to do is send an email to blogs@autobotinfo.com which is an autoresponder and you will learn how to do it for free. No cost or obligation.

The answer is in blogging.

Why is that so? Because what the search engines are looking for today is fresh meaningful content and lots of links both incoming and outgoing and that is exactly what blogs are all about. So the search engines spider the blogs first and often and if your blog provides fresh meaningful content on any subject that strikes your fancy even if you copied and pasted it from some other website and added your own commentary to it and then provided a link back to the original author's website so you don't run into copyright problems you will get top listings very soon.

Blogging is a lot of fun and it is free. It don't take much coding to get it done. About all the hml you need is a few tags such as <h1> and <p> and href tags for linking and img src tags for images and some <p> paragraph tags and that is about it. That is a lot less than you need to put up a website.

So forget about submitting your website but make sure it is properly optimized and start blogging and you will come out a whole lot better off.

[SensoVision]

As a result of the newer search engine algorithms, it don't even make any sense to submit to them at all. It is almost a waste of time. You will do a whole lot better if you just let them find you.

actually everyone here telling that submitting using automatic submission programs is a crap and wouldn't do you anything good... so no wonder why you doesn't get a results...
as for SE picking your site automatically that's true, but what about directories what's the chances that some editor will find your site and list it? I believe that submission to Google is useless since it will not list you anyway before you got some inbound links but with other engines you would be able to appear in them faster if you use link submission form on their site...

I have about 1800 or so websites

never saw anyone with so much websites, I think man should spend a really long part of his life to do so much sites... so I have to ask for proof... could you give us a list of some of your web sites?

Then I put up a blog on the 3rd of May this year (2003) and have never submitted it to any search engine. I have received just over 16, 900 hits as of this afternoon and still have 9 hours left in the day by the end of which tiime I will probably have passed the 17,000 mark.

sorry, but I don't believe you here either... your site not looking for such high traffic one, if you have so much traffic you would probably already get good advertiser and buy good hosting and hire professional designer don't you?
also if you check your statistic in Alexa(of couse I know that it's not give accurate results but it couldn't be wrong so much)
http://www.alexa.com/data/details?url=creditwrench.com so if look on Alexa stat I would rather say that your first statement that you got 14000 peoples for two years is correct not this second one about thousands of people daily...
or you talk about some other site or about all your sites in total?
also what about people who write reviews about you there? they seems to by unhappy with services you offer.

On top of that, I am qute often #1 on top in almost any search term

can you give some proofs on this as well? if you target well on so many keywords maybe you could tell us few of them.

If you want to learn how to get that kind of results I will gladly teach you how to do it for free. All you have to do is send an email to blogs@autobotinfo.com which is an autoresponder and you will learn how to do it for free. No cost or obligation.

ok now about this, I've send e-mail there just to check what is this and doesn't get anything yet, I think autoresponders work quickly so just for security measures I'll edit your posts and exclude this mail from them in case that this e-mail used for some other purposes than sending autrespond messages.
Also I wish to ask you not to add extra info to each of your posts with blog info and mail, also maybe you create new thread e.g. in general promotion board and post content of your letter? this way everyone would be able to read it and decide if it's useful. As for promoting your site I don't mind if you do this but please not use manner you do now since it seems that you wish to blog everything in the world... and after reading of your posts I've get impression that you believe that everyone should build blogs and nothing else(of course I could be wrong on this)... so please just edit your profile and put URL to your site there, if you make some posts worth attention be sure that many people would check your profile and site as well, so there is no need to put this info in each of your post, as it's unfair to other people who participate in our community. Hope you'll understand this.

About all the hml you need is a few tags such as <h1> and <p> and href tags for linking and img src tags for images and some <p> paragraph tags and that is about it.

that's wrong, since e.g. Google don't give attention to <h> tags for some time... other engines keep on doing this but it's not worth to ruin your design because of them... so I advice to design page for visitor not for search engine and make it look good to people not spiders.

[Creditwrench]

.never saw anyone with so much websites, I think man should spend a really long part of his life to do so much sites... so I have to ask for proof... could you give us a list of some of your web sites?sorry, but I don't believe you here either...

I'll let you get a small idea by giving
you the following websites and pages for you to check out.
http://www.creditwrench.com
http://www.creditwrench.greatnow.com
http://billbauer.hypermart.net
http://magnews.hypermart.net
http://myarchive.8m.com
http://creditwrench.netfirms.com
http://pub50.ezboard.com/bcreditwrench
http://creditwrench.blogspot.com
http://magnacartanews.blogspot.com
http://j-accuse.blogspot.com
http://native.hypermart.net
http://native.freeservers.com
http://cigarettes.freeservers.com

To check those out I'll even give you a free tool to use in your quest.
Kartoo graphical links checker

That tool will give you a graphical illustration of all the links leading to and from any website and show how they all link together graphically. I'd suggest that you use a separate computer to check them out with however because some of those websites I've given you have a lot of subdirectories and each of the subdirectories are complete websites with a separate index file all of it's own. Just to show you how that works out, some of those websites have up to 104 subdirectories each and all have both interconecting and incoming and outgoing links to everywhere.

And as far as your estimate of how much time it would take to do all that and a lot more, let me tell you something. I'm 72 years old. I've been on the internet longer than even compuserve and long before there ever was an internet as you know it today. And before that I had the old Magna Carta News BBS here in Oklahoma City  

Mine was one of the first BBS systems in the country. My first computer was hardly a laptop or even a pc as you know it today. My first website was put up using punch cards on an IBM mainframe.. (LOL)

I probably put my first website up long before most internet users today were ever born. I haven't done much of anything but work with computers the internet and websits since 1975. That's getting pretty close to 30 years of nothing much but internet.

your site not looking for such high traffic one, if you have so much traffic you would probably already get good advertiser and buy good hosting and hire professional designer don't you?

No, I have good hosting that I pay for. And I have my own machines hosting websites. I build the machines myself from parts and pieces. I never just go out and buy another computer.

[Creditwrench]

The machine I am using right now has dual 1.4 gig processors and 17 hard drives on it all running at the same time as well as 7 cd rom drives some of which are burners. And it is networked with more computers. And even a loss of power won't shut me down. Not for a very long time as long as I can buy diesel fuel.

And no,  I'm not a millionaire either. I just happen to know where and how to buy the stuff much cheaper than most other people do. You would be amazed at what you can get your hands on for almost free by going to various Government surplus sales. It even amazes me sometimes. I just bought a switch that changes from ethernet to fibre optic cable yesterday that would cost the average person more than $9,600 at it only cost me $6.00 at a surplus auction.  I really don't have any use for it so I'll probably sell it to somebody for about half of what it would cost them new or less.
But I like to learn how to do things myself even if I d make some mistakes in the process. Keeps the old brain well oiled and working

also if you check your statistic in Alexa(of couse I know that it's not give accurate results but it couldn't be wrong so much)
http://www.alexa.com/data/details?url=creditwrench.com so if look on Alexa stat I would rather say that your first statement that you got 14000 peoples for two years is correct not this second one about thousands of people daily...
or you talk about some other site or about all your sites in total?

I'm just talking about my main creditwrench site at http://www.creditwrench.com and my blog at http://creditwrench.blogspot.com and the main site took 2 years to get to just over 14,000 sites while the blog just now has 17,014 hits since May 3rd, 2003. That's what I said in the first place? How is it that you didn't understand that?  TAke even a 30 day running average as a comparison. Right now, the main website is running pretty close to 100 hits a day avverage and the blog runs more than double that.

also what about people who write reviews about you there? they seems to by unhappy with services you offer.can you give some proofs on this as well?

Yes, I sure can. Over the last year or so I've had two little nuts who were burned by other credit repair companies and they apparently thought that if they could run all over the internet on a few well chosen discussion forums they could become the saviours of all the posters who might be tempted to use a professional service and get burned like they did when they used a professional service to fix their credit. One of them who called himself Bkev got burned real bad by Lexington Law Firm and so as a result he went ballistic on me. He even turned me into the Oklahoma State Attorney General's office and filed a false complaint against me with them and I had to run them off which wasn't very hard to do since he had no standing with the Attorney General's office to make a complaint since he had never used my services therefore he had not lost any money nor had I ever done any business with him. On top of that he was from the Chicago aea and was not an Oklahoma resident. The other person is from California and he never used my services either. He too thought and still does think that he is going to save the world and put me out of business so he pops up in some forum or other and starts a bunch of yik-yak but tires quickly and takes off for other pastures.

Nobody in this entire world has any legitimate gripe about my services nor about my business ethics and much less about my ability to do what I say I can do.

 if you target well on so many keywords maybe you could tell us few of them.ok

That would be very hard to do too. Especially since the search engines now pick what they want to list you under instead of paying attention to your meta tags. I have shown up under literally hundreds of search terms that even I would never have dreamed of. Even telephone numbers and street addresses from all over the country. One that amazed me the other day was I showed up when someone searched for a directory of pay phone numbers. Yet i never mentioned pay phones that I can ever remember of. I probably will now b now because after I saw that I went back to the blog and wrote an article about how collection agencies might use pay phones in their collection efforts. (LOL)

[Creditwrench]

about this, I've send e-mail there just to check what is this and doesn't get anything yet, I think autoresponders work quickly so just for security measures I'll edit your posts and exclude this mail from them in case that this e-mail used for some other purposes than sending autrespond messages.

What in the heck are you talking about? As far as I know all of my autoresponders answer pretty quickly. I have one set up to answer after 24 hours has passed but there is a special reason for that  I'd suggest that you find something else to do besides try to be the policeman. I'm not using anything for any other purpose than exactly what I say I am using them for.

You have absolutely no reason on earth to edit any of my posts or take anything out of them. I'm not harvesting any emails, I'm not spamming anybody off of their emals and if you edit out my links you will only be denying them of what they came here for which is information they can use to their benefit.

If you do edit out peoples links as you just admitted you are doing then you and your forum have just lost all creditability and you won't have any visitors for very long.  I can assure you that anybody who has sent an email to my responders are going to get just exactly what I said they were going to get and nothing more and nothing less and I've even given my personal phone number so people can call me and ask me any questions they want to at any time and I'll do the best I can to help them as I always do. Now then, if you think that anybody is going to give out their personal home phone number and be pulling some kind of a scam or rotten deal then you have got to be crazier than a pet coon. People who are doing others wrong hide and won't give anybody any way to contact them. People who are honest and above board have nothing to hide and nothing to fear and they are honest and above board in everything they do.  If you are taking out my
links then I hope every body realizes what you are and how you operate and leave this message board and go somewhere they can get honest help and honest answers without some loon sticking their nose into it.
I think you owe me putting those links back in and making a public apology because you don't have a leg to stand on.

Also I wish to ask you not to add extra info to each of your posts with blog info and mail, also maybe you create new thread e.g. in general promotion board and post content of your letter? this way everyone would be able to read it and decide if it's useful. As for promoting your site I don't mind if you do this but please not use manner you do now since it seems that you wish to blog everything in the world... and after reading of your posts I've get impression that you believe that everyone should build blogs and nothing else(of course I could be wrong on this)... so please just edit your profile and put URL to your site there, if you make some posts worth attention be sure that many people would check your profile and site as well, so there is no need to put this info in each of your post, as it's unfair to other people who participate in our community. Hope you'll understand this.that's wrong, since e.g. Google don't give attention to <h> tags for some time...

That's what you think. They pay very close attention to <h1> and <h2> and <h3> tags. Those are your headliners and the search engines do pay attention to them and if you read up on what such places as webmonkey.org and other websites who teach this stuff have to say then you would know what you are talking about instead of putting people down who obviously know more than you do.

other engines keep on doing this but it's not worth to ruin your design because of them...

Ruin your design with what the search engine's own tutorials tell you to do? Yeah, sure.  Babble on.

so I advice to design page for visitor not for search engine and make it look good to people not spiders.

Maybe you at least ought to learn how to spell and how to write the english language before you talk about ruining webpages. Your diatribe here has shown us all what you know which is obviously next to nothing.

CYA.

<Forced to edit because incorrect quote attributes made message difficult to read. -Articutis

[SensoVision]

I'll let you get a small idea by giving
you the following websites and pages for you to check out.
http://www.creditwrench.com
http://www.creditwrench.greatnow.com
http://billbauer.hypermart.net
http://magnews.hypermart.net
http://myarchive.8m.com
http://creditwrench.netfirms.com
http://pub50.ezboard.com/bcreditwrench
http://creditwrench.blogspot.com
http://magnacartanews.blogspot.com
http://j-accuse.blogspot.com
http://native.hypermart.net
http://native.freeservers.com
http://cigarettes.freeservers.com

I've check them and it seems that you duplicate same sites... the only one I like is http://www.creditwrench.blogspot.com/ wouldn't it better to develop this site instead of making small clones other the web?

No, I have good hosting that I pay for. And I have my own machines hosting websites. I build the machines myself from parts and pieces. I never just go out and buy another computer.

no you misunderstood me, when I mention buying hosting I mean all those other sites which appear in your posts which are hosted on free hostings.

I'm just talking about my main creditwrench site at http://www.creditwrench.com and my blog at http://creditwrench.blogspot.com and the main site took 2 years to get to just over 14,000 sites while the blog just now has 17,014 hits since May 3rd, 2003. That's what I said in the first place? How is it that you didn't understand that?  TAke even a 30 day running average as a comparison. Right now, the main website is running pretty close to 100 hits a day avverage and the blog runs more than double that.

ok now I understand, I thought that you say that your main site getting 14000 which can't be true.

That would be very hard to do too. Especially since the search engines now pick what they want to list you under instead of paying attention to your meta tags.

but why it would be hard? if you keep statistic on server you can easily pull something of it and give us example... not necessarely keyword from metatag just some search phrase which is related to your business under which you ranked well.

What in the heck are you talking about? As far as I know all of my autoresponders answer pretty quickly. I have one set up to answer after 24 hours has passed but there is a special reason for that  I'd suggest that you find something else to do besides try to be the policeman. I'm not using anything for any other purpose than exactly what I say I am using them for.

You have absolutely no reason on earth to edit any of my posts or take anything out of them. I'm not harvesting any emails, I'm not spamming anybody off of their emals and if you edit out my links you will only be denying them of what they came here for which is information they can use to their benefit.

no I don't try to be policeman, one of the reason why this forum was organized is that we wan't to have less rules here and allow our competitors to have word as well, not using strict policies like others. if your mails used only for autrespond than sorry for suspecting you in spamming, but anyway do you like to read duplicate posts? I mean to read in each post same thing as in previous one... that was the other reason for editing. please note I keep this post unchanged(so as unique information in your other posts).... so I don't try to shut your mouth or censor you... just trying to keep forums easy to read, and save visitors time by removing duplicate material.  

If you do edit out peoples links as you just admitted you are doing then you and your forum have just lost all creditability and you won't have any visitors for very long.

no I don't think so, on other forums you would be called scammer or something like this long time ago and all your posts would be deleted and you probably banned, since you selfadvertise yourself which isn't welcome on many communities... as you can see we don't ban you or anything since there is no reason for this, as I know that you try to advertise your site and understand this, but please respect other members as they looking for advertisment for thier sites as well but doesn't use such techniques.(also please mention that I didn't edit your posts from beginning, I gave you time to see if you would put same info in each of your post I also try to check autoresponder which you advertise so hardly and only after 7th post which contain same info I decide to act) Just imagine how would look forum where everyone make a post and end each post with e-mail with autoresponder which tell the secrets to success, I think that noone would use such community after short time...
You said that we'll not have visitors soon if we keep doing things our way... who knows maybe you right but our community is a bit older than one year and it's keep on growing... and if you stay with us for longer term you would see that some pepole come ang go but some stay for good and become regular member of our community, and we'll try to do our best to help and support them by all means!
as for leaving or staying with us it's personal thing people should choose forum not forum should choose the people. so time will show who was right or who was wrong...

I can assure you that anybody who has sent an email to my responders are going to get just exactly what I said they were going to get and nothing more and nothing less and I've even given my personal phone number so people can call me and ask me any questions they want to at any time and I'll do the best I can to help them as I always do.

if what you say is truth I would respect you since I keep same philosophy of helping people, as I enjoy to do so when time permits me. so I keep on waiting for answer from autresponders to see what info you enclosed in the letter, hope I'll get it soon.

People who are doing others wrong hide and won't give anybody any way to contact them. People who are honest and above board have nothing to hide and nothing to fear and they are honest and above board in everything they do.  If you are taking out my

and now ask yourself if I'm those from who is hiding or you blame me for nothing? I would list my phone as well if I wouldn't have to pay for incoming calls... all other info is presented on the web and folks who wish to find it probably already did this...

That's what you think. They pay very close attention to <h1> and <h2> and <h3> tags. Those are your headliners and the search engines do pay attention to them and if you read up on what such places as webmonkey.org and other websites who teach this stuff have to say then you would know what you are talking about instead of putting people down who obviously know more than you do

from what I know only Google ignore this tags if I wrong correct me... as for webmonkey I've read it ages ago... it was useful for me but I'm not sure if they keep info there updated to latest trends, by the way maybe you should check this sites seochat.com and webmasterworld.com if you search for posts related to <h> tags you'll see that people agree that it's doesn't count by Google anymore...
By the way you could try to make some posting there in same manner like here and advice your sites as solution for every problem I'm sure you'll feel the difference...
also I'm not putting people who know more than me but respect them and try to learn from the since if you search this or any other site you'll not see that I ever call myself an expert of profi... I'm newbie and I keep on learning all the time...
I try to tell about things I know and if I find out that I'm wrong on something I admit this...

Maybe you at least ought to learn how to spell and how to write the english language before you talk about ruining webpages.

sure if you don't know what blame me for blame me for my English   since it's really far from perfect... as it's not my native language...

Your diatribe here has shown us all what you know which is obviously next to nothing.

it's your opinion... I hope, but if not and other people think the same please tell me this...
I'll run my sites as long as they would be helpful to other people and if they become to be helpful they will disappear and would point to other communities which would be more reliable.

PS also don't forget that this is community and if someone wrong other folks could correct him. this is what make forum unique, members who participate in it and help to each other...

[Queen Bee]

If you do edit out peoples links as you just admitted you are doing then you and your forum have just lost all creditability and you won't have any visitors for very long.

He only edits messages when he feels like the member's messages have lead to something inappropriate or deviant- Such as excess website advertisement.

If you are taking out my links then I hope every body realizes what you are and how you operate and leave this message board and go somewhere they can get honest help and honest answers without some loon sticking their nose into it.

If you didn't notice, we restrict signatures to a minimum of 20 posts. We don't believe someone should be able to advertise for themselves until they've grown to understand how our community operates.

May I say that in completely unbiased judgment: I saw your posts as a reason to advertise. As a newbie to the forum, your initial presentation was unwise. This is my personal opinion.

Maybe you at least ought to learn how to spell and how to write the English language before you talk about ruining webpages. Your diatribe here has shown us all what you know which is obviously next to nothing.

Whether or not he can spell or speak English accurately is really none of your business. Not everyone in the world was raised knowing English... That statement was highly chauvinistic and inappropriate.

There will always be people that will disagree with you or assume something you do is wrong. Anyone that attends forums regularly knows that, as I'm sure you do.

In utmost respect: If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.